Author Topic: Re: My statement re: westorange.info at the June 11 Town Council Meeting  (Read 7705 times)

Offline Gary Englert

  • *****
  • Posts: 322
[Moderator's note: Gary is replying to this post.

Jake Freivald:

Rather than play this out on Internet forums and at a Council Meeting, had you considered picking up a phone and calling Mr. Trenk to discuss the matter?

A remedy/retraction might well be the result of a conversation between two people, unless there's another agenda here.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2013, 10:48:08 PM by Jake Freivald »
Gary R. Englert

Offline westorangevoice

  • ***
  • Posts: 228
Re: My statement re: westorange.info at the June 11 Town Council Meeting
« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2013, 11:01:29 PM »
What is wrong with letting it play out in public where transparency to how paid servants of the township act and how they perform.  Obviously Mr. Trenk struggles with command of the English language based on the misspellings in his letter and didn't even take the time to verify who he was sending the letter to.  We can only conclude that his demonstrated sloppiness is not in the best interest of the puli he is paid to serve.  Exactly how much was the township charged for his writing and sending this letter, hopefully we were not charged for his nonsense and whoever put him up to it should be held accountable.   

This needs to play out in the public and Mr. Englert's suggestion that it be done behind cover of phone calls and closed doors is the epitome of protecting the incompetence that is rampant at 66 Main Street.

Offline Jake Freivald

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 290
Re: My statement re: westorange.info at the June 11 Town Council Meeting
« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2013, 11:04:42 PM »
A remedy/retraction might well be the result of a conversation between two people, unless there's another agenda here.

We actually agree for once! I would have been willing to take steps -- however unnecessary -- as a sign of good will, if they had tried to have a conversation with me. They didn't, though: They chose to send a cease-and-desist letter.

So, since you think "there's another agenda here", what do you think the town's agenda is?
Twitter: jdfreivald or westorangenj
AIM: jdfreivald
YM: jdfreivald

Offline Gary Englert

  • *****
  • Posts: 322
Re: My statement re: westorange.info at the June 11 Town Council Meeting
« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2013, 11:25:40 PM »
Jake Freivald:

What I think happened is a a junior associate monitoring Township matters either jumped the gun and/or failed to follow instructions (take your pick) and sent a letter a letter that never should have been composed, let alone mailed...and, yes, I think the entire premise therein rests on extremely unstable legal grounds.

That said, I think "Team Krakoviak's" agenda (not having accomplished anything remotely significant in four years of trying) is to draw attention to itself by making mountains out of molehills.
Gary R. Englert

Offline Jake Freivald

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 290
Re: My statement re: westorange.info at the June 11 Town Council Meeting
« Reply #4 on: June 11, 2013, 11:30:13 PM »
And your evidence for this "junior associate" theory is...?

Yeah, that's what I thought.
Twitter: jdfreivald or westorangenj
AIM: jdfreivald
YM: jdfreivald

Offline Gary Englert

  • *****
  • Posts: 322
Re: My statement re: westorange.info at the June 11 Town Council Meeting
« Reply #5 on: June 11, 2013, 11:46:07 PM »
Jake Freivald:

Since when does one need to present evidence to give a personal opinion or a theory?

I'm telling you what I think happened based on the quality (or lack thereof) of the letter sent and based on my knowledge that, absent some unusual circumstance or issue, an associate of Mr. Trenk represents him at the Mayor's weekly staff meetings.

That said, should I be surprised that you declined to address my hypothesis concerning Team Krakoviak's agenda here? My guess is you sidesetpped the observation because it's irrefutable: you can't provide any evidence of you knuckleheads having accomplished anything...can you?
Gary R. Englert

Offline Gary Englert

  • *****
  • Posts: 322
Re: My statement re: westorange.info at the June 11 Town Council Meeting
« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2013, 12:01:05 AM »
westorangevoice:

You contnue to ask the same kind of nonsensical questions over and over again.

How much did Mr. Trenk's letter to Jeff (sic) Freivald (oh, the indignity of the Municiapl Attorney's firm not knowing him by name) cost the Township?

Not a thing.

Mr. Trenk is essentially on retainer and performs a myriad of services for what is essentially a flat annual fee.

In fact, since his assistant (Mr. Kayser) now attends Council Meetings, Mr. Trenk is paid less than he was 15 years ago.
Gary R. Englert

Offline Raymond Helfrich

  • ***
  • Posts: 138
  • "Mr. Hospitality"
    • The West Orange Watercooler (WOW!)
Quote from: "Gary Englert"
Rather than play this out on Internet forums and at a Council Meeting, had you considered picking up a phone and calling Mr. Trenk to discuss the matter?

A remedy/retraction might well be the result of a conversation between two people...

That is so funny!
Share more information (and fewer opinions, ideally) (about the town) (and vicinity) on the West Orange Watercooler (WOW!)!
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WestOrangeWatercooler/

Offline Gary Englert

  • *****
  • Posts: 322
Re: My statement re: westorange.info at the June 11 Town Council Meeting
« Reply #8 on: June 12, 2013, 12:26:53 AM »
Raymond Helfrich:

And just where can the humor be found in the suggestion that two parties have a conversation?

True, that's where it likely should have begun but, to paraphrase Confucious, "A journey of a thousand miles begins with the first step."
Gary R. Englert

Offline Jake Freivald

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 290
Re: My statement re: westorange.info at the June 11 Town Council Meeting
« Reply #9 on: June 12, 2013, 07:45:37 AM »
Gary, sometimes when I don't argue with you, it's not because you're right. It's because you don't need an argument: You need a cure, and that's more than I can provide.

But let me try one last time with your "junior associate" theory.

If our town employs a law firm that allows a junior associate to send a citizen a foolish cease-and-desist letter -- one that attempts to lay claim to a place name and one that attempts to impose prior restraint on a web site -- then why, precisely, should that law firm be handled gently and behind the scenes? This is obviously a situation that demands swift and clear corrective action. Is it not possible that said hypothetical junior associate has behaved thuggishly and foolishly to other citizens on other topics? How will those people know that they've been victims of a pattern of behavior that shouldn't be occurring, and how will they know that they should seek redress? Should the public not know that the firm that represents the town is allowing its junior associates to behave in such a way? What, in short, is to be gained by the citizens of West Orange if I were to deal with a junior associate's error by phone rather than in a completely public and transparent way?

And, of course, these questions only become more important if it was not a junior associate who sent the letter, but a more senior person; or if it was sent on behalf of someone within the town administration itself.

Far from being a situation that calls for back-channel negotiation, this is the very reason for the First Amendment rights you fought for.
Twitter: jdfreivald or westorangenj
AIM: jdfreivald
YM: jdfreivald

Offline DavidKman

  • *
  • Posts: 4
Re: My statement re: westorange.info at the June 11 Town Council Meeting
« Reply #10 on: June 12, 2013, 09:09:56 AM »
If a junior associate is sending out official missives on behalf of the town which arguably expose the township to a suit for a civil right violation in attempting to chill speech, that's actually MORE troubling.

But I really doubt that's what happened.

Offline Gary Englert

  • *****
  • Posts: 322
Re: My statement re: westorange.info at the June 11 Town Council Meeting
« Reply #11 on: June 12, 2013, 10:49:39 AM »
Jake Freivald:

Are you sure you were an intelligence officer?

It's not that I need a cure for much of anything; more precisely it's you that needs a cause worth pursuing and, clearly, a clue about how to go about it.

How, pray tell, would making a telephone call concerning the letter you received jeopardize your position?

Would it have made the letter in your possession vanish into thin air? 

Of course not but, a conversation might have provided some insight into how and why you received what you did, if not provide reason to resolve the matter entirely to your satisfaction...or even cause to add a couple more paragraphs to last night's public grandstanding.

The difference between you and me is that I don't proceed based on conjecture and what if's; I proceed based on hard data, evidence and actionable proof...which is precisely what I did regarding the then Municipal Attorney some sixteen years ago. There was no speculation about incompetence, malfeasance or misfeasance...there was doumentable proof.

Even forgeting the fact it took the man six attempts to pass the New Jersey State Bar Exam, he was personally and professionally compromised by more than $1 Million in federal tax liens (with his entire compensation from the Township garnished) and he had committed real estate fraud...albeit discovered scant months after the statute of limitations to prosecute the crime expired. That discovery, however, was telling as there is no statute of limitations on attorney ethics violations and that evidence provided ample reason for an investigation leading to charges of embesslement, an indictment, a plea, the man's disbarment and resignation

Conversely, you received an ill-conceived letter that, absent any evidence to the contrary, may just as well represent an instance of boneheaded human error as anything else. It's not necessarily that "there's nothing to see here," it's that, looking for instant gratification, you didn't take any of the prudent steps necessary to prove it was anything else before showing your hand.

It's a good thing you weren't a grunt, with you ass in the grass with a gun in your hand, as you would have truly sucked deployed in a night ambush.  It's not easy staying silent when the bugs are biting and the little critters are crawling over you but, that's what it takes not to give up your position and get the job done.

You people have long since become know as the "boys and girls who cried wolf," as all the "I gotchas" have been much ado about nothing and have accomplish precisely that...nothing.
Gary R. Englert

Offline WO-StatusQuo

  • ***
  • Posts: 100
Re: My statement re: westorange.info at the June 11 Town Council Meeting
« Reply #12 on: June 12, 2013, 11:11:40 AM »

The difference between you and me is that I don't proceed based on conjecture (for example, a young upstart associate sending an ill-conceived cease-and-desist letter) and what if's; I proceed based on hard data, evidence and actionable proof...which is precisely what I did regarding the then Municipal Attorney some sixteen years ago. There was no speculation about incompetence, malfeasance or misfeasance...there was doumentable proof.

Even forgeting the fact it took the man six attempts to pass the New Jersey State Bar Exam, (blah, blah, blah) ... disbarment and resignation ... (blah, blah, blah)
Haha!  It's déjà vu all over again.  How many times have I read these exact words in multiple posts on every local forum.  Glory days, well, they'll pass you by. :)

Offline Jake Freivald

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 290
Re: My statement re: westorange.info at the June 11 Town Council Meeting
« Reply #13 on: June 12, 2013, 11:26:04 AM »
Lulz....
Twitter: jdfreivald or westorangenj
AIM: jdfreivald
YM: jdfreivald

Offline Gary Englert

  • *****
  • Posts: 322
Re: My statement re: westorange.info at the June 11 Town Council Meeting
« Reply #14 on: June 12, 2013, 12:00:20 PM »
WO-StatusQuo and Jake Freivald:

Deride the documentable accomplishments of true civic activism all you'd like but, the operative word there is "accomplishment" and that's something you and your ilk have yet to produce in any way, shape, manner or form.

It's also not about "glory days" passing us by (though, unlike you, at least we had some of them) it's about those of us having walked the walk and not merely talked the talk.

A record of having done something trumps no record at all every time.

Again, I've seen corruption and did something about it...and this isn't it.
Gary R. Englert